11 Responses to “Lord, I Believe, Help Thou My Unbelief”

1. John, on May 7th, 2008 at 9:24 pm Said:

   For what it’s worth, I do think Keyes was basically right in saying that Christ wouldn’t have voted for Barack Obama. But He wouldn’t have voted for Alan Keyes, either. He almost certainly wouldn’t have voted at all.

   That said, you’re absolutely right on the more general issue of Obama’s supposed agnosticism. Rod Dreher wrote something a while back - here it is - that made a similar accusation, using that same bedtime story anecdote as a springboard. He wrote:

   … Obama’s agnosticism about whether or not humankind was created, or the existence of an afterlife, signals that he is very far from normative Christianity. Does he really believe in Christian teaching, or does he truly believe in the transformative power of community? Did he come to Jesus when he was baptized, or was his baptism only a symbol for his “return” to the black community?

   I found, and indeed still find, this deeply offensive. What Obama was expressing - “I wasn’t sure whether …” - is far from agnosticism: not only is it possible to come to Christianity by way of something less than a “blinding flash”, it’s also possible to be a faithful Christian whose belief in such things as the resurrection of the dead is marked by severe doubts. (If not, I suppose I ought to start counting myself among the faithless.) That Obama has been willing to be honest about those doubts is, it seems to me, the best evidence of his Christianity that we could ask for.

2. Benny One Six, on May 8th, 2008 at 1:31 pm Said:

   Let’s be clear about something: Obama is a liberal Protestant, which means that by definition his kind of Christianity is not going to mesh with mine or Alan Keyes’ or most conservatives’, in part because his denomination emphasises the Social Gospel and the activism associated with that, but also because it belongs to a very different theological tradition.

   That’s really very good.

   And, as the quote in the above response implies, isn’t the question really whether or not Obama is an Atheist?

   Does he understand as you do (and musn’t all Christians believe this?) that God became man to save us?

   It seems quite possible that Obama has conflated his “return” to the black community with a Christian conversion…

3. Benny One Six, on May 8th, 2008 at 1:32 pm Said:

   That first para should be in quotes, sorry.

4. John Beeler, on May 8th, 2008 at 5:23 pm Said:

   I suspect Obama’s an agnostic opportunist too. Joining Trinity UCC was obviously part of his ‘Am I black enough?’ angst and a way to cadge black votes in Chicago.

   … his kind of Christianity is not going to mesh with mine.

   Nor does Ron Paul’s ex-Lutheran, ex-Episcopal, casual Baptist churchgoing with mine.

   But in both his and Obama’s cases it doesn’t matter. The American system is supposed to be not secularist but secular, that is, impartial.

   I’d vote for a partnered gay atheist who sticks with the Constitution and stays out of foreign wars.

   A conservative blog for peace

5. jaloren, on May 8th, 2008 at 5:35 pm Said:

   Daniel,

   If you take the position that one cannot be both a good Christian and pro-life, then how do you address the profound hypocrisy of Christian conservatives who opposes abortion on the one hand while supporting preventative war on the other?

   I understand the position that one cannot be a good Christian and pro-choice–though I disagree with it.

   But I find it disgustingly hypocritical for someone to passionately argue for the protection of fetal life and connect that to one’s religious bona fides and then in the next breathe advocate for the slaughter of innocent men, women, and children in the name of national interest. This is particularly poignant with neo-conservative Catholics (oxymoronic term if there ever was one).

6. tedschan, on May 9th, 2008 at 12:31 am Said:

   The theo-cons do not “advocate for the slaughter of innocent men, women, and children in the name of national interest,” they would say that such casualties are not directly intended, but unintended.

   It is best to stay with the critique of their justification for “preventative war.”

7. Bobcat, on May 9th, 2008 at 11:37 pm Said:

   I’ve wondered about Obama’s religious faith for some time now, myself. I’ve never thought he was a secret agnostic; I believe that he is sincere when he describes himself as a Christian. However, I wonder how liberal a Christian he is; is he like John Spong, John Dominic Crossan, or Thomas Sheehan, all of whom consider themselves to be Christians, but all of whom are atheists (they don’t regard themselves as atheists, but they think God is not a being that exists whether or not people exist, but is instead something else–a way of life, I take it, or whatever attitude is manifested in a large group of positively-minded people)? Is he like Marcus Borg, he believes in some extra-material reality, that he calls God, but seems to be skeptical on the physical resurrection of Jesus from the dead, and is in any case convinced that whether or not Jesus literally rose doesn’t matter? Anyone know? Is this in his book?

8. conradg, on May 10th, 2008 at 4:45 am Said:

   I’m always puzzled by Christians who think they know which practices in life are sacrosanct and which are not. I’m not aware of Jesus mentioning abortion, or describing when and how souls come into human bodies. My own view is that souls are not created at conception, and that they do not enter into association with the body until rather late in pregnancy, but I don’t see why that should make for social policy on issues of abortion, and I don’t see how one’s reading of the Bible or any other scripture can be anything but a single man or woman’s conscience at work. I believe in choice, because that I think is the central tenet of salvation - one is saved through conscious choice, not by obeying laws. Men make laws because they make agreements that make sense in life. Men are not saved by obeying the law, or by forcing others to obey laws. Abortion, whether it is against the law of God or not should not be against the law of man. We should have the choice to do with out own bodies as we choose, and pay the consequences ourselves if there are any. If a women goes to hell for having an abortion, so be it. If not, so be it. That is not the business of others to decide.

9. Jeremy Lott, on May 12th, 2008 at 7:53 am Said:

   See Sean’s reply to this post here: http://jeremylott.net/?p=1485

   Also the title of the article is, “The Audacity of What?” “The Unbeliever” was the cover line.

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