8 Responses to “Negotiation”

1. Benny One Six, on May 15th, 2008 at 3:57 pm Said:

   What is the evidence that Bush’s foreign policy has been bad?

   Certainly not the installation of pro-American and mostly rightist leaders in Europe and Australia…

   The occupation of Iraq (and not the invasion or removal of Sadaam) was and is a mistake but other than that, what’s the problem? Historically, Iraq is not the WORST THING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED EVER EVER!!!!! so many portray it as…

2. Benny One Six, on May 15th, 2008 at 4:05 pm Said:

   And, another thing, Bush was talking about a specific foerign entity with the whole no appeasement thing… He wasn’t laying out how he would deal with every state or even every state opposed to America’s interests… Just “terrorists” etc.

3. Daniel Larison, on May 15th, 2008 at 4:14 pm Said:

   Installation? I didn’t realise that they were vassal rulers whom we installed. I have no argument with Rudd, but to call him either “pro-American” or “mostly rightist” would be wrong, since he is obviously opposed to continued Australian deployment to Iraq and is a man of the left. His opposition to the war does not make him “anti-American,” to be sure, but it’s worth noting that for every Schroeder who was ousted there is a Howard to compensate on the other side. Of course, I agree that Iraq is not the worst thing that has ever happened, I have never said such a thing, and I have rebuked people in the past for saying things to that effect. That doesn’t mean it isn’t a colossal blunder, an enormous injustice and a gross waste of our resources, and all of it coming at an inexcusable cost in human life. One problem is that the U.S. waged a war of aggression, which is bad enough in its own right. By most standards, the Iraq war is not as colossal a blunder as entering WWI or going into Vietnam, but it is certainly one of the great errors of all of U.S. foreign policy.

   What else has Mr. Bush damaged? Let us see….

   Objectively, our relations with Russia are demonstrably worse. We invaded another country without just cause and alienated a good three-quarters of the globe doing it. Our Pakistan policy, so called, has been a bad joke, and has tied us to one of the more unpopular of their unpopular dictators, while simultaneously straining what should otherwise be a promising relationship with India. Washington hasn’t completely dropped the ball on the relationship with India, but it hasn’t cultivated it nearly well enough. The Near East is far less stable, far more dominated by Iran and our allies are less secure than they were when he took office, and a good part of this can be traced to his decision to invade Iraq. If Mr. Bush somehow gets credit for Sarkozy’s election, which I would dispute, it’s worth noting that Sarkozy now thrashes around in newfound impotence, while the adamantly “pro-American” Tony Blair was ousted and the “pro-American” Angela Merkel has gone out of her way to thwart the ludicrous schemes of Mr. Bush to incorporate Ukraine and Georgia into NATO. Thank goodness Merkel did, or else I could add that to the list of his terrible decisions. Never mind that these “mostly rightist leaders” have been elected largely on domestic political grounds, while Zapatero continues to govern in Spain, elevated in the wake of the Spanish people’s repudiation of Aznar’s close alliance with Bush over Iraq and his cynical exploitation of the train bombings. The previously sycophantic Tory leaders of the past are gone, replaced by Cameron, who is quite happy to thumb his nose at us when he will (which is probably ultimately for the best, but is also a clear rebuke to Mr. Bush and the servile relationship Tory leaders had with the GOP). Oh, yes, and he recognised Kosovo as an independent state, which has been and will continue to worsen separatist crises around the world. The genius also promoted elections that empowered Hamas and actively encouraged Israel in a counterproductive and failed war in Lebanon that empowered Hizbullah. I’m sure I’m forgetting some things, but there have been so *many* failures that it does become difficult to keep track. Let us turn the question around: in what way has Mr. Bush’s foreign policy been good or successful?

4. Grumpy Old Man, on May 15th, 2008 at 4:20 pm Said:

   Bush was targeting Obama, and spouting the usual democratist drivel.

   What day is it? It’s always Groundhog Day, 1938!

5. Benny One Six, on May 15th, 2008 at 5:00 pm Said:

   Installation was just a terrible choice of words on my part…

   You’ve provided a list, fair enough.. First, I’d note that it’s really quite small when you look at it.. Russia is upset with us and Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran are stronger and separatism is on the rise… Assuming that all these are true, is it all that bad of a record compared to past presidents? I say no.

   Re: separatism: that’s the way things are moving in the world and Bush has identified it and seen that it is a good thing and works to our advantage. Why shouldn’t the Shi’a rule where they are the majority? Why shouldn’t power devolve down to smaller constituent parts? Hasn’t the arbitrary construction of states and nations in Africa and the Middle East been a disaster?

   Hamas and Hezbollah are the gov’s of the people whether we like it or not.. Opposing them opposes the majority of the populations and is a losing game…

   As to why Bush’s been good… Well, I’d point to the consolidation of the Anglosphere and the addition of India and hopefully soon Iran. And, I’d dispute that we are less secure than we were…

6. Bustrofedon, on May 16th, 2008 at 4:46 am Said:

   But isn’t Bush also the biggest hypocrite we’ve seen in a while - and there is always fierce competition for that title - complaining about appeasement when his Administration has/is talking to Iran, Sudan, and North Korea - all on the State Sponsors of Terrorism list.

   The fact that he has almost banrupted this country, wasted its political capital worldwide, and hollowed out our military force in military misadventures also has obvious foreign policy implications. That should count for something surely.

7. Adam01, on May 16th, 2008 at 9:43 am Said:

   “The occupation of Iraq (and not the invasion or removal of Sadaam) was and is a mistake but other than that, what’s the problem? Historically, Iraq is not the WORST THING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED EVER EVER!!!!! so many portray it as… ”

   Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

   While I would agree that our Iraq misadventure has been less bad than, say, the Black Death, Mongol Invasion, attack by Cylons, aren’t we setting the bar a little low here? Talk about the soft-bigotry of low expectations…

8. davegnyc, on May 17th, 2008 at 7:45 am Said:

   Iraq is not the WORST THING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED EVER EVER!!!!!

   I will only add that what makes Iraq particularly sad is that it was completely avoidable and voluntary. He had to go to great lengths to make this mistake.

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