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	<title>Comments on: The Party Line</title>
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	<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/29/the-party-line/</link>
	<description>n. the principle of good order&#60;br /&#62;&#60;br /&#62; "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman</description>
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		<title>By: Daniel Larison</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/29/the-party-line/comment-page-1/#comment-11206</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Larison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 19:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/29/the-party-line/#comment-11206</guid>
		<description>Well, yes, I agree, which is why I wrote, &quot;The Republicans have a policy problem.  Itâ€™s the Democrats who seem to have a brand or image problem.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, yes, I agree, which is why I wrote, &#8220;The Republicans have a policy problem.  Itâ€™s the Democrats who seem to have a brand or image problem.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Roth</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/29/the-party-line/comment-page-1/#comment-11205</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Roth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 19:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/29/the-party-line/#comment-11205</guid>
		<description>I crunched the numbers on this a little bit.

It&#039;s stunning that attaching the Republican brand adds double digits to Republicans&#039; (tepid) support for Republican policies.

For Democrats, it&#039;s *exactly the opposite* (but with single-digit moves). Branding a policy &quot;Democratic&quot; *reduces* Democrat&#039;s support for it.

Who&#039;s got the branding problem, and who&#039;s got the policy problem?

Numbers here:

http://trueconservative.typepad.com/trueconservative/2008/05/pubs-and-dems-brands-and-beliefs.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I crunched the numbers on this a little bit.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s stunning that attaching the Republican brand adds double digits to Republicans&#8217; (tepid) support for Republican policies.</p>
<p>For Democrats, it&#8217;s *exactly the opposite* (but with single-digit moves). Branding a policy &#8220;Democratic&#8221; *reduces* Democrat&#8217;s support for it.</p>
<p>Who&#8217;s got the branding problem, and who&#8217;s got the policy problem?</p>
<p>Numbers here:</p>
<p><a href="http://trueconservative.typepad.com/trueconservative/2008/05/pubs-and-dems-brands-and-beliefs.html" rel="nofollow">http://trueconservative.typepad.com/trueconservative/2008/05/pubs-and-dems-brands-and-beliefs.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/29/the-party-line/comment-page-1/#comment-11203</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 18:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/29/the-party-line/#comment-11203</guid>
		<description>Thanks. Based on my quick look over those NPR data, it seems to me that if a consistent message could be crafted that:

1. Stresses the need for a real immigration policy (I am actually far less hardline than you paleos on this, but we can compromise);

2. Rails against the corruption, inefficiency, and essential unaccountability of Washington politicians and bureaucrats;

3. Emphasizes the rights of states to determine their own fates, especially on such issues as abortion, gay rights, etc., without taking a stand on &lt;i&gt;how&lt;/i&gt; they ought to decide them;

4. Demands a balanced federal budget;

5. Echoes the populist calls for middle-class tax cuts, child tax credits, and so on;

6. Calls for an end to the Iraq war and a reduction in defense (as opposed to espionage and counterintelligence) spending;

7. Takes a stand against bad trade agreements but not free trade itself;

8. Advocates protectionist measures for trade involving countries where workers are exploited or mistreated;

9. Takes seriously the oil crisis (not that I have any sense, aside from promoting higher-density living, of what to do about this);

10. Proposes ways to deal with inflation; and

11. Demands an end to corporate welfare;

... then we&#039;d have something close to a majority on our hands. All of these are issues that seem to be very much on people&#039;s minds, and proposing sane, sensible, federalist, and minimally activist solutions to them is the sort of thing that would resonate with an awful lot of voters. And these are, I take it, very much the sort of things that paleoconservatives are out to do. Again, I&#039;m not enough of an expert - either on the principles of paleoconservatism or on the relevant polling stats - to make any hard predictions here, but I do think I know where I&#039;d put my money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks. Based on my quick look over those NPR data, it seems to me that if a consistent message could be crafted that:</p>
<p>1. Stresses the need for a real immigration policy (I am actually far less hardline than you paleos on this, but we can compromise);</p>
<p>2. Rails against the corruption, inefficiency, and essential unaccountability of Washington politicians and bureaucrats;</p>
<p>3. Emphasizes the rights of states to determine their own fates, especially on such issues as abortion, gay rights, etc., without taking a stand on <i>how</i> they ought to decide them;</p>
<p>4. Demands a balanced federal budget;</p>
<p>5. Echoes the populist calls for middle-class tax cuts, child tax credits, and so on;</p>
<p>6. Calls for an end to the Iraq war and a reduction in defense (as opposed to espionage and counterintelligence) spending;</p>
<p>7. Takes a stand against bad trade agreements but not free trade itself;</p>
<p>8. Advocates protectionist measures for trade involving countries where workers are exploited or mistreated;</p>
<p>9. Takes seriously the oil crisis (not that I have any sense, aside from promoting higher-density living, of what to do about this);</p>
<p>10. Proposes ways to deal with inflation; and</p>
<p>11. Demands an end to corporate welfare;</p>
<p>&#8230; then we&#8217;d have something close to a majority on our hands. All of these are issues that seem to be very much on people&#8217;s minds, and proposing sane, sensible, federalist, and minimally activist solutions to them is the sort of thing that would resonate with an awful lot of voters. And these are, I take it, very much the sort of things that paleoconservatives are out to do. Again, I&#8217;m not enough of an expert &#8211; either on the principles of paleoconservatism or on the relevant polling stats &#8211; to make any hard predictions here, but I do think I know where I&#8217;d put my money.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Larison</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/29/the-party-line/comment-page-1/#comment-11201</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Larison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 17:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/29/the-party-line/#comment-11201</guid>
		<description>I like that--Larison&#039;s Limitless Capacity.  I think the numbers on the war and trade are promising signs for paleo and traditionalist conservatives, and I would be curious to see how people would respond to &quot;non-partisan&quot; positions that propose scaling back our presence overseas and bringing forces deployed in Europe and Asia back home.  The support on the Democratic side would already be fairly high, and I suspect it would be much higher on the GOP side in a &quot;non-partisan&quot; or &quot;non-ideological&quot; survey than otherwise.  Obviously, a &quot;non-partisan&quot; survey on immigration would also be very revealing, and I think would show a much broader and also deeper level of support for restrictionist positions.  Maybe not as much as I might like, but certainly more than there is in the standard polling.  I have thought for some time that paleos have a better sense of the public&#039;s frustrations on a number of issues and have been closer to the &quot;American political scene&quot; in that sense than some of our reformist friends, but the trouble remains that the agenda we propose does seem to hit a ceiling of support electorally.  However, things may be changing.  I&#039;ll have to think more on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like that&#8211;Larison&#8217;s Limitless Capacity.  I think the numbers on the war and trade are promising signs for paleo and traditionalist conservatives, and I would be curious to see how people would respond to &#8220;non-partisan&#8221; positions that propose scaling back our presence overseas and bringing forces deployed in Europe and Asia back home.  The support on the Democratic side would already be fairly high, and I suspect it would be much higher on the GOP side in a &#8220;non-partisan&#8221; or &#8220;non-ideological&#8221; survey than otherwise.  Obviously, a &#8220;non-partisan&#8221; survey on immigration would also be very revealing, and I think would show a much broader and also deeper level of support for restrictionist positions.  Maybe not as much as I might like, but certainly more than there is in the standard polling.  I have thought for some time that paleos have a better sense of the public&#8217;s frustrations on a number of issues and have been closer to the &#8220;American political scene&#8221; in that sense than some of our reformist friends, but the trouble remains that the agenda we propose does seem to hit a ceiling of support electorally.  However, things may be changing.  I&#8217;ll have to think more on this.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/29/the-party-line/comment-page-1/#comment-11200</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 17:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/29/the-party-line/#comment-11200</guid>
		<description>Daniel,

Do you think you might write something about what these and other such polling numbers reveal about the public support for paleoconservative and traditionalist/crunchy conservative views, especially once partisan and ideological labels (liberal/conservative/populist/progressive/etc.) are taken out of the equation? Obviously the question of health care stands out like a sore thumb, but on other prominent issues like the war, bad free trade agreements, immigration, inflation, federal deficits, and - perhaps - an overdependence on foreign oil, not to mention the deep mistrust of Congress and the federal government more generally, it seems to me that - contra &lt;a href=&quot;http://rossdouthat.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/the_outsiders.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ross Douthat&lt;/a&gt; - there are serious signs for hope here. (If Ron Paul could magically be made to have a [D] after his name whenever Democrats read about him and an [R] for the Republicans, I think he could win.) I thought about trying to pull something together myself, but I don&#039;t have the time. You, on the other hand, seem to have a limitless capacity for things like this. In any case I would be interested to hear what you think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel,</p>
<p>Do you think you might write something about what these and other such polling numbers reveal about the public support for paleoconservative and traditionalist/crunchy conservative views, especially once partisan and ideological labels (liberal/conservative/populist/progressive/etc.) are taken out of the equation? Obviously the question of health care stands out like a sore thumb, but on other prominent issues like the war, bad free trade agreements, immigration, inflation, federal deficits, and &#8211; perhaps &#8211; an overdependence on foreign oil, not to mention the deep mistrust of Congress and the federal government more generally, it seems to me that &#8211; contra <a href="http://rossdouthat.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/the_outsiders.php" rel="nofollow">Ross Douthat</a> &#8211; there are serious signs for hope here. (If Ron Paul could magically be made to have a [D] after his name whenever Democrats read about him and an [R] for the Republicans, I think he could win.) I thought about trying to pull something together myself, but I don&#8217;t have the time. You, on the other hand, seem to have a limitless capacity for things like this. In any case I would be interested to hear what you think.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Roth</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/29/the-party-line/comment-page-1/#comment-11198</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Roth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 16:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/29/the-party-line/#comment-11198</guid>
		<description>This is not even a little bit surprising. Two sources:

1. Psychologist Jonathan Haidt set out a schema with five &quot;spheres&quot; of morality: not harming, fairness, loyalty, respect for authority, and purity.

In Haidtâ€™s surveys, liberals value avoiding harm and fairness â€œinordinately,â€ while conservatives value all five. (Jihadists, like conservatives but moreso, put inordinate value on loyalty, authority, and purity.)

Cato research fellow Will Wilkinson explains:
http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/09/19/whats-the-frequency-lakoff/

2. Bob Altmeyer has spent decades studying &quot;authoritarian followers.&quot; People of this personality type are self-described conservatives, by a huge margin.

See Altmeyer&#039;s page, and Republican turncoat John Dean&#039;s Conservatives Without Conscience

We&#039;ve seen the loyalty gene in spades this week re: McClellan outrage. A commenter on Red State said, &quot;loyalty *is* everything.&quot;

Is &quot;yes, comrade, whatever you say, comrade&quot; an admirable or worthy basis for morality?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is not even a little bit surprising. Two sources:</p>
<p>1. Psychologist Jonathan Haidt set out a schema with five &#8220;spheres&#8221; of morality: not harming, fairness, loyalty, respect for authority, and purity.</p>
<p>In Haidtâ€™s surveys, liberals value avoiding harm and fairness â€œinordinately,â€ while conservatives value all five. (Jihadists, like conservatives but moreso, put inordinate value on loyalty, authority, and purity.)</p>
<p>Cato research fellow Will Wilkinson explains:<br />
<a href="http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/09/19/whats-the-frequency-lakoff/" rel="nofollow">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/09/19/whats-the-frequency-lakoff/</a></p>
<p>2. Bob Altmeyer has spent decades studying &#8220;authoritarian followers.&#8221; People of this personality type are self-described conservatives, by a huge margin.</p>
<p>See Altmeyer&#8217;s page, and Republican turncoat John Dean&#8217;s Conservatives Without Conscience</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve seen the loyalty gene in spades this week re: McClellan outrage. A commenter on Red State said, &#8220;loyalty *is* everything.&#8221;</p>
<p>Is &#8220;yes, comrade, whatever you say, comrade&#8221; an admirable or worthy basis for morality?</p>
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		<title>By: bayesian</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/29/the-party-line/comment-page-1/#comment-11186</link>
		<dc:creator>bayesian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 00:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/29/the-party-line/#comment-11186</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Daniel.  To paraphrase John Cole, you read all these things (like TNR, which I stopped reading years ago) so that we (your readers) don&#039;t have to.  Seriously, the signal to noise ratio on Eunomia is about as high as a general interest blog can get (I&#039;d put GNXP in the same category; no others come to immediately to mind) - keirei!

(not being a political junkie, I didn&#039;t recognize Glen Bolger&#039;s name, though a quick Google tells me he&#039;s an R - do you think he sufficiently balanced Greenberg to make it a neutral poll?)

I find it remarkable that you find the degree of partisan pull on the Republicans remarkable; it&#039;s not just the herd mentality (which is a nearly universal human characteristic)  but the ever tightening (since at least 2000 if not 1994) top-down centrally controlled dissemination of the orthodoxy.  

OTOH, as a generally left leaning independent, I am surprised by how little penalty the Democratic partisan label carries for other independents (perhaps my fellow Inds. are more able than I to overlook the sheer fecklessness of so many actually existing Ds; I doff my metaphorical cap to them).  But look at the Congressional disapproval ratings in the poll - what would have been interesting is separate approve/disapprove ratings for Rs and Ds in Congress (I know Ds are winning big on the generic congressional ballot, but that&#039;s a different question from approval/disapproval of the existing delegations in toto).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Daniel.  To paraphrase John Cole, you read all these things (like TNR, which I stopped reading years ago) so that we (your readers) don&#8217;t have to.  Seriously, the signal to noise ratio on Eunomia is about as high as a general interest blog can get (I&#8217;d put GNXP in the same category; no others come to immediately to mind) &#8211; keirei!</p>
<p>(not being a political junkie, I didn&#8217;t recognize Glen Bolger&#8217;s name, though a quick Google tells me he&#8217;s an R &#8211; do you think he sufficiently balanced Greenberg to make it a neutral poll?)</p>
<p>I find it remarkable that you find the degree of partisan pull on the Republicans remarkable; it&#8217;s not just the herd mentality (which is a nearly universal human characteristic)  but the ever tightening (since at least 2000 if not 1994) top-down centrally controlled dissemination of the orthodoxy.  </p>
<p>OTOH, as a generally left leaning independent, I am surprised by how little penalty the Democratic partisan label carries for other independents (perhaps my fellow Inds. are more able than I to overlook the sheer fecklessness of so many actually existing Ds; I doff my metaphorical cap to them).  But look at the Congressional disapproval ratings in the poll &#8211; what would have been interesting is separate approve/disapprove ratings for Rs and Ds in Congress (I know Ds are winning big on the generic congressional ballot, but that&#8217;s a different question from approval/disapproval of the existing delegations in toto).</p>
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