Comments on: Convergence And Consensus (II) http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/28/convergence-and-consensus-ii/ n. the principle of good order<br /><br /> "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman Fri, 19 Mar 2010 01:35:30 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: jdl51 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/28/convergence-and-consensus-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-14469 jdl51 Mon, 29 Sep 2008 04:21:35 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/28/convergence-and-consensus-ii/#comment-14469 Obama differs from McCain in that he wants to far more selective in the use of force and use force as a last resort. Iraq would have been a far more effective ally against Al Qaeda than it is now. By eliminating Saddam we have taken a counterweight to Iran out of the picture and handed them a Shiite government that has more in common with Iran, if not an outright ally. The issue with the surge is that it's sole purpose was to reduce violence, which it did although there are still many deaths every day in Iraq, to give the government an opportunity to build bridges between the different ethnic groups. That part has been a complete failure and the Iraqi army is now cracking down on Sunni leaders. I don't see a good outcome there as long as the Shiite government makes no effort at real conciliation with the Kurds and Sunnis. The next president will have a difficult time of it, but more bombs in the region will not help. There must be a concerted effort made to push reconciliation as the only alternative for Iraq. If it does not succeed, partition may be the only solution. Obama differs from McCain in that he wants to far more selective in the use of force and use force as a last resort. Iraq would have been a far more effective ally against Al Qaeda than it is now. By eliminating Saddam we have taken a counterweight to Iran out of the picture and handed them a Shiite government that has more in common with Iran, if not an outright ally. The issue with the surge is that it’s sole purpose was to reduce violence, which it did although there are still many deaths every day in Iraq, to give the government an opportunity to build bridges between the different ethnic groups. That part has been a complete failure and the Iraqi army is now cracking down on Sunni leaders. I don’t see a good outcome there as long as the Shiite government makes no effort at real conciliation with the Kurds and Sunnis. The next president will have a difficult time of it, but more bombs in the region will not help. There must be a concerted effort made to push reconciliation as the only alternative for Iraq. If it does not succeed, partition may be the only solution.

]]> By: LMaggitti http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/28/convergence-and-consensus-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-14465 LMaggitti Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:23:20 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/28/convergence-and-consensus-ii/#comment-14465 I think this is mostly right, but: (1) It ignores the issue I raised below; i.e., the goals may be broadly the same, but the means are very different. (2) On some issues, I think that it is fairly clear that Obama is playing politics. Georgia is probably the best example, where his initial, sane, most likely sincere reaction was killing him in the polls, so he shifted to a more bellicose (and popular) position. As much as one hates to see that sort of pandering to the voter's worst instincts, I'd be shocked if an Obama administration followed through on the kind of Georgia policy set forth in the debate. Whereas with McCain, if anything, I think you would see an even more bellicose policy than set forth in the debate. I think this is mostly right, but:

(1) It ignores the issue I raised below; i.e., the goals may be broadly the same, but the means are very different.

(2) On some issues, I think that it is fairly clear that Obama is playing politics. Georgia is probably the best example, where his initial, sane, most likely sincere reaction was killing him in the polls, so he shifted to a more bellicose (and popular) position. As much as one hates to see that sort of pandering to the voter’s worst instincts, I’d be shocked if an Obama administration followed through on the kind of Georgia policy set forth in the debate. Whereas with McCain, if anything, I think you would see an even more bellicose policy than set forth in the debate.

]]> By: jetan http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/28/convergence-and-consensus-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-14464 jetan Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:10:13 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/28/convergence-and-consensus-ii/#comment-14464 Apologies if if it has been pointed out already, but The Nation's Robert Dreyfuss has a pretty good rant on the mirroring of the McCain and Obama foreign policies. http://www.thenation.com/blogs/dreyfuss/365222/verdict_on_obama_mealymouthed_pathetic Apologies if if it has been pointed out already, but The Nation’s Robert Dreyfuss has a pretty good rant on the mirroring of the McCain and Obama foreign policies.
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/dreyfuss/365222/verdict_on_obama_mealymouthed_pathetic

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