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	<title>Comments on: Withdrawals And Crackdowns</title>
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	<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/01/05/withdrawals-and-crackdowns/</link>
	<description>n. the principle of good order&#60;br /&#62;&#60;br /&#62; "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman</description>
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		<title>By: mbsocol</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/01/05/withdrawals-and-crackdowns/comment-page-1/#comment-25157</link>
		<dc:creator>mbsocol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 12:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8044#comment-25157</guid>
		<description>With respect, Daniel, it&#039;s simply not true that it cost Sharon no capital to withdraw from Gaza.  I agree with you in principle that Gaza was and has continued to be a mess under Israel, and that pro-Israel writers who fault the Palestinians for this are misrepresenting the enduring blockade on Gaza.  But if you think that Sharon was taking a popular stance with the withdrawal, you&#039;re badly misinformed.

It took everything Sharon had to make the withdrawal a reality, and it ought to tell you something that he had to create a whole new political party just to get it done.  (Not that new parties aren&#039;t created all the time in Israel&#039;s system -- they are -- but to create a new *major* party from whole cloth was completely unheard of before Sharon.)  I&#039;m struggling with what I see as your continued failure to understand the mindset of the Israeli electorate in so many aspects of this conflict.  I&#039;ve always thought of you, for better or worse, as a &quot;realist&quot; when it comes to foreign policy (insofar as you&#039;re more willing and able to spell out hard truths that most writers I know of).  But as you have continued to misunderstand how this operation fits into the Israelis&#039; narrative of themselves, I find that a lot of what you&#039;re saying is reduced to empty moralizing -- a crime which you share with something like 99% of other American bloggers, but which nonetheless doesn&#039;t seem up to your standards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With respect, Daniel, it&#8217;s simply not true that it cost Sharon no capital to withdraw from Gaza.  I agree with you in principle that Gaza was and has continued to be a mess under Israel, and that pro-Israel writers who fault the Palestinians for this are misrepresenting the enduring blockade on Gaza.  But if you think that Sharon was taking a popular stance with the withdrawal, you&#8217;re badly misinformed.</p>
<p>It took everything Sharon had to make the withdrawal a reality, and it ought to tell you something that he had to create a whole new political party just to get it done.  (Not that new parties aren&#8217;t created all the time in Israel&#8217;s system &#8212; they are &#8212; but to create a new *major* party from whole cloth was completely unheard of before Sharon.)  I&#8217;m struggling with what I see as your continued failure to understand the mindset of the Israeli electorate in so many aspects of this conflict.  I&#8217;ve always thought of you, for better or worse, as a &#8220;realist&#8221; when it comes to foreign policy (insofar as you&#8217;re more willing and able to spell out hard truths that most writers I know of).  But as you have continued to misunderstand how this operation fits into the Israelis&#8217; narrative of themselves, I find that a lot of what you&#8217;re saying is reduced to empty moralizing &#8212; a crime which you share with something like 99% of other American bloggers, but which nonetheless doesn&#8217;t seem up to your standards.</p>
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		<title>By: expertlaw</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/01/05/withdrawals-and-crackdowns/comment-page-1/#comment-24165</link>
		<dc:creator>expertlaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 21:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8044#comment-24165</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s not forget something else that likely helped load the powder keg in Gaza - internal exile, Israel&#039;s historic practice of transferring troublesome West Bank residents into Gaza. (&lt;a href=&quot;http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0205/10/i_ins.01.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;An example&lt;/a&gt;.) And let&#039;s not forget &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.btselem.org/english/Gaza_Strip/Gaza_Status.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;what &quot;withdrawal&quot; looks like&lt;/a&gt;.

Kristol writes, &quot;Hamas is only one manifestation of the rise, over the past few decades, of a terror-friendly and almost death-cult-like form of Islamic extremism.&quot; - but look at how &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/display.cfm?pubID=894&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this namby-pamby leftist group&lt;/a&gt; describes Hamas: &quot;HAMAS&#039; political and strategic development has been both ignored and misreported in Israeli and Western sources which villainizes the group, much as the PLO was once characterized as an anti-Semitic terrorist group&quot;. No, let&#039;s not pretend Hamas is all hugs and kisses, as that&#039;s anything but the case, but let&#039;s also stop advancing the fiction that Palestinians had a real choice here and &quot;chose terror&quot;. The choice was between a corrupt, inefficient, self-serving, secular organization that had been negotiating for a &quot;land for peace&quot; deal for a decade &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.btselem.org/english/Settlements/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;as Israeli settlements expanded&lt;/a&gt; and living conditions worsened, versus a religious, much more efficient, much less corrupt organization that was delivering food, education and medical services to the people.

Meanwhile, post-&quot;withdrawal&quot; Gaza was scarcely more habitable than it was when it earned its characterization as the world&#039;s largest prison camp. It&#039;s a testament to Palestinian &lt;em&gt;rejection&lt;/em&gt; of the stated political goals and religious extremism of Hamas that, under the most favorable of circumstances, Hamas obtained only 57% of the seats in Parliament. Also, let&#039;s not forget that Bush was warned both by Abbas and Israel that Hamas would likely win the election, and pressed for it anyway - then reacted in a manner typical of a man who gives lots of lip service to democracy but seems to have no respect whatsoever for elections. The election result, of course, provided a convenient excuse not to actually work for peace. But then, maybe that&#039;s what Bush wanted.

There&#039;s plenty of low hanging fruit to choose from today - are you going to take on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/04/AR2009010401434.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bolton&lt;/a&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s not forget something else that likely helped load the powder keg in Gaza &#8211; internal exile, Israel&#8217;s historic practice of transferring troublesome West Bank residents into Gaza. (<a href="http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0205/10/i_ins.01.html" rel="nofollow">An example</a>.) And let&#8217;s not forget <a href="http://www.btselem.org/english/Gaza_Strip/Gaza_Status.asp" rel="nofollow">what &#8220;withdrawal&#8221; looks like</a>.</p>
<p>Kristol writes, &#8220;Hamas is only one manifestation of the rise, over the past few decades, of a terror-friendly and almost death-cult-like form of Islamic extremism.&#8221; &#8211; but look at how <a href="http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/display.cfm?pubID=894" rel="nofollow">this namby-pamby leftist group</a> describes Hamas: &#8220;HAMAS&#8217; political and strategic development has been both ignored and misreported in Israeli and Western sources which villainizes the group, much as the PLO was once characterized as an anti-Semitic terrorist group&#8221;. No, let&#8217;s not pretend Hamas is all hugs and kisses, as that&#8217;s anything but the case, but let&#8217;s also stop advancing the fiction that Palestinians had a real choice here and &#8220;chose terror&#8221;. The choice was between a corrupt, inefficient, self-serving, secular organization that had been negotiating for a &#8220;land for peace&#8221; deal for a decade <a href="http://www.btselem.org/english/Settlements/" rel="nofollow">as Israeli settlements expanded</a> and living conditions worsened, versus a religious, much more efficient, much less corrupt organization that was delivering food, education and medical services to the people.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, post-&#8221;withdrawal&#8221; Gaza was scarcely more habitable than it was when it earned its characterization as the world&#8217;s largest prison camp. It&#8217;s a testament to Palestinian <em>rejection</em> of the stated political goals and religious extremism of Hamas that, under the most favorable of circumstances, Hamas obtained only 57% of the seats in Parliament. Also, let&#8217;s not forget that Bush was warned both by Abbas and Israel that Hamas would likely win the election, and pressed for it anyway &#8211; then reacted in a manner typical of a man who gives lots of lip service to democracy but seems to have no respect whatsoever for elections. The election result, of course, provided a convenient excuse not to actually work for peace. But then, maybe that&#8217;s what Bush wanted.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s plenty of low hanging fruit to choose from today &#8211; are you going to take on <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/04/AR2009010401434.html" rel="nofollow">Bolton</a>?</p>
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