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	<title>Comments on: Revolutionaries</title>
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	<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/01/23/revolutionaries/</link>
	<description>n. the principle of good order&#60;br /&#62;&#60;br /&#62; "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman</description>
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		<title>By: nagee76</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/01/23/revolutionaries/comment-page-1/#comment-29908</link>
		<dc:creator>nagee76</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8181#comment-29908</guid>
		<description>Could you have pitched a movie about the mujahedinâ€™s battle with the Soviets to the American public before 9/11? 

Pithlord,
                   I dont think you watched Rambo 3. may be you should. especially the ending where Sly Stallone waves goodbye to the mujahideen who helped him kill all the evil commies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could you have pitched a movie about the mujahedinâ€™s battle with the Soviets to the American public before 9/11? </p>
<p>Pithlord,<br />
                   I dont think you watched Rambo 3. may be you should. especially the ending where Sly Stallone waves goodbye to the mujahideen who helped him kill all the evil commies.</p>
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		<title>By: bayesian</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/01/23/revolutionaries/comment-page-1/#comment-29896</link>
		<dc:creator>bayesian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8181#comment-29896</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a good hypo about Aguinaldo - I actually think several good movies (a miniseries perhaps?) could be made about the Philippineâ€“American War (with a prequel about Bonifacio and the Katipunan?).  

I note that there have been reasonably successful movies made with Native Americans (or whatever the preferred collective noun here at AmCon is for people descended from people resident in the Americas pre-1492) as protagonists and the US (soldiers and civilians) as primarily antagonists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a good hypo about Aguinaldo &#8211; I actually think several good movies (a miniseries perhaps?) could be made about the Philippineâ€“American War (with a prequel about Bonifacio and the Katipunan?).  </p>
<p>I note that there have been reasonably successful movies made with Native Americans (or whatever the preferred collective noun here at AmCon is for people descended from people resident in the Americas pre-1492) as protagonists and the US (soldiers and civilians) as primarily antagonists.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Larison</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/01/23/revolutionaries/comment-page-1/#comment-29893</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Larison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 23:20:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8181#comment-29893</guid>
		<description>&quot;Could you have pitched a movie about the mujahedinâ€™s battle with the Soviets to the American public before 9/11?&quot;

Maybe.  As most of the mujahideen were Pashtun, even if they received a lot of Saudi and Pakistani aid, I think there was more flexibility in portraying them as freedom fighters of a specifically anticommunist type.  Even so, they are much more easily made into heroes because they fought for us.  They fit the role of Arabs in the Lawrence story: the noble, oppressed people whom the benevolent Western ally befriends and respects in order to defeat a common foe.  Possibly a better question: would anyone ever be able to sell a biopic of &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_al-Din_al-Afghani&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Al-Afghani&lt;/a&gt;?  I somehow doubt it.  

Perhaps a better, less loaded question: could you make a film about Aguinaldo and his role in the Filipino War (or just a film about the Filipino War) that would not be automatically categorized as anti-American?  He fits the underdog role Conrad mentioned, but he was an underdog against our forces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Could you have pitched a movie about the mujahedinâ€™s battle with the Soviets to the American public before 9/11?&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe.  As most of the mujahideen were Pashtun, even if they received a lot of Saudi and Pakistani aid, I think there was more flexibility in portraying them as freedom fighters of a specifically anticommunist type.  Even so, they are much more easily made into heroes because they fought for us.  They fit the role of Arabs in the Lawrence story: the noble, oppressed people whom the benevolent Western ally befriends and respects in order to defeat a common foe.  Possibly a better question: would anyone ever be able to sell a biopic of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_al-Din_al-Afghani" rel="nofollow">Al-Afghani</a>?  I somehow doubt it.  </p>
<p>Perhaps a better, less loaded question: could you make a film about Aguinaldo and his role in the Filipino War (or just a film about the Filipino War) that would not be automatically categorized as anti-American?  He fits the underdog role Conrad mentioned, but he was an underdog against our forces.</p>
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		<title>By: Pithlord</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/01/23/revolutionaries/comment-page-1/#comment-29892</link>
		<dc:creator>Pithlord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 22:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8181#comment-29892</guid>
		<description>Could you have pitched a movie about the mujahedin&#039;s battle with the Soviets to the American public before 9/11? Could you do so now? I never saw Charlie Wilson&#039;s War, so I don&#039;t know how it handled the cognitive dissonance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could you have pitched a movie about the mujahedin&#8217;s battle with the Soviets to the American public before 9/11? Could you do so now? I never saw Charlie Wilson&#8217;s War, so I don&#8217;t know how it handled the cognitive dissonance.</p>
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		<title>By: conradg</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/01/23/revolutionaries/comment-page-1/#comment-29891</link>
		<dc:creator>conradg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 22:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8181#comment-29891</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re forgetting what Che, Collins, Lawrence and his Arabs, and heroes like Washington had going for them - huge underdog status. This gives them immediate sympathy across the board, regardless of ideology. Of course, a lot of that depends on how you tell the story. The general rule in all political stories, of course, is underdog overcomes overdog and through his sacrifice all live happier, freer lives as a result.

The problem with Che&#039;s story is that once he came into power in Cuba under Castro, he became a merciless totalitarian killer and leader of the government terror squads. Not exactly in keeping with his romantic underdog role. So most sympathetic accounts tend to leave those elements of his story out. Still, the result in Cuba and elsewhere is not terribly inspiring. Hard to make a sympathetic movie about Robespierre or Lenin, even if he did fight against the monarchy and in favor of the peasants, due to that massive dependence on state terror. 

Obviously with Lincoln, Wilson, and FDR, the sympathetic part of their story is that they allegedly fought for the common man, or the underclass, for freedom and demoncracy, and against evil, slavery, monarchism, etc. The amount of death that resulted was part of the tragic price paid to ensure these goals were achieved. And they refrained from using state terror to achieve their goals, or at least that&#039;s how the story is told. 

It&#039;s harder to tell that kind of story to a western audience about Arafat or even Ataturk. It&#039;s also hard to keep it interesting without a western proxy like Lawrence to identify with. Even in that movie, the Arabs come off as interesting, but not terribly sympathetic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re forgetting what Che, Collins, Lawrence and his Arabs, and heroes like Washington had going for them &#8211; huge underdog status. This gives them immediate sympathy across the board, regardless of ideology. Of course, a lot of that depends on how you tell the story. The general rule in all political stories, of course, is underdog overcomes overdog and through his sacrifice all live happier, freer lives as a result.</p>
<p>The problem with Che&#8217;s story is that once he came into power in Cuba under Castro, he became a merciless totalitarian killer and leader of the government terror squads. Not exactly in keeping with his romantic underdog role. So most sympathetic accounts tend to leave those elements of his story out. Still, the result in Cuba and elsewhere is not terribly inspiring. Hard to make a sympathetic movie about Robespierre or Lenin, even if he did fight against the monarchy and in favor of the peasants, due to that massive dependence on state terror. </p>
<p>Obviously with Lincoln, Wilson, and FDR, the sympathetic part of their story is that they allegedly fought for the common man, or the underclass, for freedom and demoncracy, and against evil, slavery, monarchism, etc. The amount of death that resulted was part of the tragic price paid to ensure these goals were achieved. And they refrained from using state terror to achieve their goals, or at least that&#8217;s how the story is told. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s harder to tell that kind of story to a western audience about Arafat or even Ataturk. It&#8217;s also hard to keep it interesting without a western proxy like Lawrence to identify with. Even in that movie, the Arabs come off as interesting, but not terribly sympathetic.</p>
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		<title>By: Freddie</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/01/23/revolutionaries/comment-page-1/#comment-29890</link>
		<dc:creator>Freddie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8181#comment-29890</guid>
		<description>We can all give it up for Parnell, though, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We can all give it up for Parnell, though, right?</p>
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