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	<title>Comments on: Specter, Sestak And Toomey</title>
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	<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/05/05/specter-sestak-and-toomey/</link>
	<description>n. the principle of good order&#60;br /&#62;&#60;br /&#62; "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman</description>
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		<title>By: conradg</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/05/05/specter-sestak-and-toomey/comment-page-1/#comment-32028</link>
		<dc:creator>conradg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 23:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9387#comment-32028</guid>
		<description>In the first place, what good does it do Democrats to have Specter call himself a Democrat if he continues to vote Republican? What do the Democrats really have to lose by challenging Specter in the primary, and probably defeating him? Yes, Specter&#039;s a sure thing if he doesn&#039;t get beaten up in the primaries, but it&#039;s a sure thing for Specter, not the Democrats. The guy is clearly out for himself, and doesn&#039;t give a damn about the Democratic agenda, so why should Democrats coddle him? It&#039;s more in the Democrats interest to beat Specter in the primaries, which I think should be pretty easy, in that he&#039;s clearly an opportunistic turncoat who Democrats have no loyalty to, and because Sestak is a strong candidate in his own right. Can Sestak beat Toomey in the general? In all likelihood, hell yes. So the best outcome for Democrats is to back Sestak, beat Specter, and win the general. At least then there&#039;d by a real Democrat in the Senate, not some phony like Specter who won&#039;t  vote Democratic anyway. If Toomey wins, at least it&#039;ll be because Pennsylvanians really want a far right senator. I don&#039;t see that happening, but if it does, it probably means huge changes have occurred in the country that overshadow this race. Pennsylvania is not hard for Democrats to win in. It&#039;s a blue state and already rejected Rick Santorum for having policies similar to Toomey. Unless theirs some kind of major conservative backlash in 2010, which if the economy recovers as it seems to be doing is probably impossible, this seat is going Democratic. In that case, the worst outcome that seems genuinely possible is to have Specter be that Democrat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the first place, what good does it do Democrats to have Specter call himself a Democrat if he continues to vote Republican? What do the Democrats really have to lose by challenging Specter in the primary, and probably defeating him? Yes, Specter&#8217;s a sure thing if he doesn&#8217;t get beaten up in the primaries, but it&#8217;s a sure thing for Specter, not the Democrats. The guy is clearly out for himself, and doesn&#8217;t give a damn about the Democratic agenda, so why should Democrats coddle him? It&#8217;s more in the Democrats interest to beat Specter in the primaries, which I think should be pretty easy, in that he&#8217;s clearly an opportunistic turncoat who Democrats have no loyalty to, and because Sestak is a strong candidate in his own right. Can Sestak beat Toomey in the general? In all likelihood, hell yes. So the best outcome for Democrats is to back Sestak, beat Specter, and win the general. At least then there&#8217;d by a real Democrat in the Senate, not some phony like Specter who won&#8217;t  vote Democratic anyway. If Toomey wins, at least it&#8217;ll be because Pennsylvanians really want a far right senator. I don&#8217;t see that happening, but if it does, it probably means huge changes have occurred in the country that overshadow this race. Pennsylvania is not hard for Democrats to win in. It&#8217;s a blue state and already rejected Rick Santorum for having policies similar to Toomey. Unless theirs some kind of major conservative backlash in 2010, which if the economy recovers as it seems to be doing is probably impossible, this seat is going Democratic. In that case, the worst outcome that seems genuinely possible is to have Specter be that Democrat.</p>
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		<title>By: doubter4444</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/05/05/specter-sestak-and-toomey/comment-page-1/#comment-32011</link>
		<dc:creator>doubter4444</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 16:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9387#comment-32011</guid>
		<description>You said:  That being the case, perhaps forcing Specter to jump ship before the primary is all part of a cunning grand strategy to make the Democrats run a badly flawed candidate in a race they would otherwise almost be sure to win. 

I personally thing there is a long term &quot;grand strategy&quot; but it&#039;s not the Republicans, it from the Democrats.

I think the real play is for the ladies of the north, Collins and Snowe.
I think that grabbing Specter was a precursor to those two doing the same thing, and jumping ship, and saying they are forced out as the party turns harder right, and purges the moderates (which will have more than a grain of truth to it).  Remember, they have TREMENDOUS popularity in their state, and don&#039;t need to switch in the face of primary challenges.  
So getting them to switch (and I think they&#039;d go as a pair) would give a huge boost to the administration.  It&#039;ll take awhile, but look for it.
 
The Democrats took this bet (bringing him aboard) and now have the chance to portray Specter as the irascible old uncle, and prove to everyone out there that see, the Democratic party can handle internal dissent, and accept it, while the Republicans simply purges moderates and call them traitors.   

That gives the super majority and then some to the Democrats, reinforces the irrelevance of Republicans, and in 2010 they go up a seat or more.  

Then the arguments are between moderate Dems and the progressive wing of the Democratic party... with the Republicans waving their hands and going to tea-parties, and shouting socialism, or fascism, or communism or whatever.  

So Specter could be a huge game changer, IMHO.
And cherchez les femmes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You said:  That being the case, perhaps forcing Specter to jump ship before the primary is all part of a cunning grand strategy to make the Democrats run a badly flawed candidate in a race they would otherwise almost be sure to win. </p>
<p>I personally thing there is a long term &#8220;grand strategy&#8221; but it&#8217;s not the Republicans, it from the Democrats.</p>
<p>I think the real play is for the ladies of the north, Collins and Snowe.<br />
I think that grabbing Specter was a precursor to those two doing the same thing, and jumping ship, and saying they are forced out as the party turns harder right, and purges the moderates (which will have more than a grain of truth to it).  Remember, they have TREMENDOUS popularity in their state, and don&#8217;t need to switch in the face of primary challenges.<br />
So getting them to switch (and I think they&#8217;d go as a pair) would give a huge boost to the administration.  It&#8217;ll take awhile, but look for it.</p>
<p>The Democrats took this bet (bringing him aboard) and now have the chance to portray Specter as the irascible old uncle, and prove to everyone out there that see, the Democratic party can handle internal dissent, and accept it, while the Republicans simply purges moderates and call them traitors.   </p>
<p>That gives the super majority and then some to the Democrats, reinforces the irrelevance of Republicans, and in 2010 they go up a seat or more.  </p>
<p>Then the arguments are between moderate Dems and the progressive wing of the Democratic party&#8230; with the Republicans waving their hands and going to tea-parties, and shouting socialism, or fascism, or communism or whatever.  </p>
<p>So Specter could be a huge game changer, IMHO.<br />
And cherchez les femmes.</p>
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		<title>By: JJM</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/05/05/specter-sestak-and-toomey/comment-page-1/#comment-32006</link>
		<dc:creator>JJM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 04:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9387#comment-32006</guid>
		<description>Blargh, guess I was &lt;a href=&quot;http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2009/05/good-kind-of-kabuki-by-dday-this-arlen.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wrong&lt;/a&gt;.

I must have confused Reid&#039;s (non-existant) no-primary-challenge deal with Reid&#039;s (very real) no-loss-of-committee-seniority deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blargh, guess I was <a href="http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2009/05/good-kind-of-kabuki-by-dday-this-arlen.html" rel="nofollow">wrong</a>.</p>
<p>I must have confused Reid&#8217;s (non-existant) no-primary-challenge deal with Reid&#8217;s (very real) no-loss-of-committee-seniority deal.</p>
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		<title>By: JJM</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/05/05/specter-sestak-and-toomey/comment-page-1/#comment-32004</link>
		<dc:creator>JJM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 04:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9387#comment-32004</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;[...] and the party leaders know that.&lt;/i&gt;

Pretend I didn&#039;t write that last phrase.  It&#039;s superfluous, and I don&#039;t know what I was thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>[...] and the party leaders know that.</i></p>
<p>Pretend I didn&#8217;t write that last phrase.  It&#8217;s superfluous, and I don&#8217;t know what I was thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: JJM</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/05/05/specter-sestak-and-toomey/comment-page-1/#comment-32003</link>
		<dc:creator>JJM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 04:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9387#comment-32003</guid>
		<description>There have been grumblings in the Democratic left about some deal between Reid and Specter that basically guaranteed that Specter would not have a primary challenge.  I&#039;ll see if I can find a link.

I highly doubt that a primary challenge to Specter would turn out the way that some Democrats hope it will.  Should Specter have to defend his left flank in the primary and then his right in the general, I think the inevitable flip-flopping will be easily exploitable by even a moderately well-run campaign.  Even if Sestak beats out Specter in a primary, there&#039;s no guarantee that Obama&#039;s coattails will be long enough in a year that Sestak can just ride them in.

Party professionals know that Specter is at least nominally a Democrat now, and is a ranking member of high-profile committees, including the one that initially goes over Supreme Court nominations.  If the Democrats succeed in challenging Specter, they lose that, and the party leaders know that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There have been grumblings in the Democratic left about some deal between Reid and Specter that basically guaranteed that Specter would not have a primary challenge.  I&#8217;ll see if I can find a link.</p>
<p>I highly doubt that a primary challenge to Specter would turn out the way that some Democrats hope it will.  Should Specter have to defend his left flank in the primary and then his right in the general, I think the inevitable flip-flopping will be easily exploitable by even a moderately well-run campaign.  Even if Sestak beats out Specter in a primary, there&#8217;s no guarantee that Obama&#8217;s coattails will be long enough in a year that Sestak can just ride them in.</p>
<p>Party professionals know that Specter is at least nominally a Democrat now, and is a ranking member of high-profile committees, including the one that initially goes over Supreme Court nominations.  If the Democrats succeed in challenging Specter, they lose that, and the party leaders know that.</p>
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		<title>By: jetan</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/05/05/specter-sestak-and-toomey/comment-page-1/#comment-31996</link>
		<dc:creator>jetan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 23:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9387#comment-31996</guid>
		<description>I was a little gob-smacked to read Specter&#039;s gratuitous comments regarding the Norm Coleman comedy today. Talk about an unforced error. If he wants to guarantee a primary fight, that&#039;s the way to do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a little gob-smacked to read Specter&#8217;s gratuitous comments regarding the Norm Coleman comedy today. Talk about an unforced error. If he wants to guarantee a primary fight, that&#8217;s the way to do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Grumpy Old Man</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/05/05/specter-sestak-and-toomey/comment-page-1/#comment-31990</link>
		<dc:creator>Grumpy Old Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 21:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9387#comment-31990</guid>
		<description>&quot;A specter is haunting Pennsylvania . . . .&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A specter is haunting Pennsylvania . . . .&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: DarrenG</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/05/05/specter-sestak-and-toomey/comment-page-1/#comment-31989</link>
		<dc:creator>DarrenG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 20:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9387#comment-31989</guid>
		<description>The latest polling strongly suggests that Toomey isn&#039;t inevitable:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/05/poll-ridge-leads-toomey-in-2010-pennsylvania-senate-primary----by-a-landslide.php

I also think you missed the truly odd part of that paragraph by Reihan.  It&#039;s a classic &quot;...and a pony&quot; argument.  

Sure,Toomey would stand a much better chance if he stopped his &quot;tax cuts, tax cuts, and more tax cuts&quot; chant long enough to offer reasonable suggestions on health care, energy, and transportation.  He&#039;d also stand a much better chance if he cured cancer, reconciled Israel and Palestine, and gave every Pennsylvanian a shiny new pony.  Reihan fails to mention how such an unlikely sequence of events can or should happen, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The latest polling strongly suggests that Toomey isn&#8217;t inevitable:</p>
<p><a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/05/poll-ridge-leads-toomey-in-2010-pennsylvania-senate-primary----by-a-landslide.php" rel="nofollow">http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/05/poll-ridge-leads-toomey-in-2010-pennsylvania-senate-primary&#8212;-by-a-landslide.php</a></p>
<p>I also think you missed the truly odd part of that paragraph by Reihan.  It&#8217;s a classic &#8220;&#8230;and a pony&#8221; argument.  </p>
<p>Sure,Toomey would stand a much better chance if he stopped his &#8220;tax cuts, tax cuts, and more tax cuts&#8221; chant long enough to offer reasonable suggestions on health care, energy, and transportation.  He&#8217;d also stand a much better chance if he cured cancer, reconciled Israel and Palestine, and gave every Pennsylvanian a shiny new pony.  Reihan fails to mention how such an unlikely sequence of events can or should happen, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Larison</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/05/05/specter-sestak-and-toomey/comment-page-1/#comment-31986</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Larison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 20:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9387#comment-31986</guid>
		<description>Yes, one should try to seek victory, but it doesn&#039;t make a headlong assault against a well-defended position any wiser by saying, &quot;If you don&#039;t try to take the position, you&#039;ll never take it.&quot;  The men who charged into the guns at Balaclava were theoretically seeking victory.  They did not achieve it.    

Explain to me what Toomey is hoping to accomplish.  To prove a point?  To register a protest?  If so, that&#039;s fine as far as it goes.  I have no problem with protest candidacies and protest voting.  However, if we judge these things by the likelihood of success at the polls, it just doesn&#039;t make sense.    

I want to give Toomey enough credit that he decided to run for Senate not just to get even with Specter, but because he thought he had some chance at winning in the general election.  If that is what he believed going in, I&#039;m afraid I just don&#039;t see it.  Now maybe Toomey can prove me wrong, run an excellent campaign and beat whoever comes up against him.  Everything I have seen happen in Pennsylvania politics over the last three years tells me this cannot happen.  

What is the end result going to be?  Unless Toomey pulls out a win in the general election, which I would have to rate as a major upset, all that will have been accomplished is to serve up one more case for meliorists everywhere to cite as proof that whatever part of Toomey&#039;s message they want to discredit is political poison.  Pro-choicers and welfarists will take his defeat as vindication, because their opponents made the mistake of putting up a candidate in a state where any conservative Republican is going to have an incredibly difficult time winning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, one should try to seek victory, but it doesn&#8217;t make a headlong assault against a well-defended position any wiser by saying, &#8220;If you don&#8217;t try to take the position, you&#8217;ll never take it.&#8221;  The men who charged into the guns at Balaclava were theoretically seeking victory.  They did not achieve it.    </p>
<p>Explain to me what Toomey is hoping to accomplish.  To prove a point?  To register a protest?  If so, that&#8217;s fine as far as it goes.  I have no problem with protest candidacies and protest voting.  However, if we judge these things by the likelihood of success at the polls, it just doesn&#8217;t make sense.    </p>
<p>I want to give Toomey enough credit that he decided to run for Senate not just to get even with Specter, but because he thought he had some chance at winning in the general election.  If that is what he believed going in, I&#8217;m afraid I just don&#8217;t see it.  Now maybe Toomey can prove me wrong, run an excellent campaign and beat whoever comes up against him.  Everything I have seen happen in Pennsylvania politics over the last three years tells me this cannot happen.  </p>
<p>What is the end result going to be?  Unless Toomey pulls out a win in the general election, which I would have to rate as a major upset, all that will have been accomplished is to serve up one more case for meliorists everywhere to cite as proof that whatever part of Toomey&#8217;s message they want to discredit is political poison.  Pro-choicers and welfarists will take his defeat as vindication, because their opponents made the mistake of putting up a candidate in a state where any conservative Republican is going to have an incredibly difficult time winning.</p>
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		<title>By: RedPhillips</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/05/05/specter-sestak-and-toomey/comment-page-1/#comment-31983</link>
		<dc:creator>RedPhillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 19:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9387#comment-31983</guid>
		<description>&quot;This is why Toomeyâ€™s challenge never made much sense&quot;

Primary challenges against RINOs should be run based on principle alone. Conservative ideas may not be widely popular at the moment, but you surely cannot win if you do not try. You can&#039;t advance them if you don&#039;t have someone advocating them. (Not that Toomey is an ideal advocate.) As Howard Phillips say, &quot;To achieve victory first you must seek it.&quot; No one is going to hand it to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This is why Toomeyâ€™s challenge never made much sense&#8221;</p>
<p>Primary challenges against RINOs should be run based on principle alone. Conservative ideas may not be widely popular at the moment, but you surely cannot win if you do not try. You can&#8217;t advance them if you don&#8217;t have someone advocating them. (Not that Toomey is an ideal advocate.) As Howard Phillips say, &#8220;To achieve victory first you must seek it.&#8221; No one is going to hand it to you.</p>
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