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	<title>Comments on: The &#8220;Real&#8221; Results</title>
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	<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/18/the-real-results/</link>
	<description>n. the principle of good order&#60;br /&#62;&#60;br /&#62; "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman</description>
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		<title>By: vbdietz</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/18/the-real-results/comment-page-1/#comment-32881</link>
		<dc:creator>vbdietz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9699#comment-32881</guid>
		<description>The numbers on the flyer that Fisk reports first appeared on June 14th, apparently from &lt;a href=&quot;http://underthelobsterscope.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/while-iran-ha-declared-ahmadinejad-the-winner/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Iranian reporter Maseeh Alinejad&lt;/a&gt;.  That blogger goes onto comment on the unlikelihood of those particular numbers being accurate.  

I did read an analysis of why/how the fraud was perpetrated that proposed that Khamenei and Ahmadinejad became alarmed in the last 1-2 weeks before the election at the size of the rallies for Moussavi and at that point set in motion a poorly-managed initiative to make sure that the vote for Ahmadinejad didn&#039;t look like a wholesale rejection of his leadership.  Unfortunately for them, the vote-stuffing appears to have been too blatant.  

The Iranian-American Council&#039;s blog has &lt;a href=&quot;http://niacblog.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/election-unrest-day-two/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this email&lt;/a&gt; from someone in Iran (along with other internal reports):

&lt;blockquote&gt;One close friend of mine worked as election official in Shiraz. He says they received 70 ballot boxes, in which 40 of them were with broken seals. The answer to the question of “why the seals are open?” was that the boxes move in the car during transit, so the seals came off. He says the votes in the 40 open boxes were all for Ahmadinejad and Moosavi was leading in the rest of the 30 boxes.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

There are more reports of such fraud which support the assertion that whatever has been reported officially is not an accurate vote count.  Certainly Grand Ayatollah Montazeri&#039;s statement leaves no doubt that he considers the official results fraudulent.

All that can really be said at this point is that we don&#039;t know who really won the Iranian election and it&#039;s unlikely that we ever will find out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The numbers on the flyer that Fisk reports first appeared on June 14th, apparently from <a href="http://underthelobsterscope.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/while-iran-ha-declared-ahmadinejad-the-winner/" rel="nofollow">Iranian reporter Maseeh Alinejad</a>.  That blogger goes onto comment on the unlikelihood of those particular numbers being accurate.  </p>
<p>I did read an analysis of why/how the fraud was perpetrated that proposed that Khamenei and Ahmadinejad became alarmed in the last 1-2 weeks before the election at the size of the rallies for Moussavi and at that point set in motion a poorly-managed initiative to make sure that the vote for Ahmadinejad didn&#8217;t look like a wholesale rejection of his leadership.  Unfortunately for them, the vote-stuffing appears to have been too blatant.  </p>
<p>The Iranian-American Council&#8217;s blog has <a href="http://niacblog.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/election-unrest-day-two/" rel="nofollow">this email</a> from someone in Iran (along with other internal reports):</p>
<blockquote><p>One close friend of mine worked as election official in Shiraz. He says they received 70 ballot boxes, in which 40 of them were with broken seals. The answer to the question of “why the seals are open?” was that the boxes move in the car during transit, so the seals came off. He says the votes in the 40 open boxes were all for Ahmadinejad and Moosavi was leading in the rest of the 30 boxes.</p></blockquote>
<p>There are more reports of such fraud which support the assertion that whatever has been reported officially is not an accurate vote count.  Certainly Grand Ayatollah Montazeri&#8217;s statement leaves no doubt that he considers the official results fraudulent.</p>
<p>All that can really be said at this point is that we don&#8217;t know who really won the Iranian election and it&#8217;s unlikely that we ever will find out.</p>
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		<title>By: conradg</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/18/the-real-results/comment-page-1/#comment-32850</link>
		<dc:creator>conradg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9699#comment-32850</guid>
		<description>All well and true, but doesn&#039;t ignoring the election results and just making up winning numbers for Ahmadinejad constitute a grave and audacious crime against the state? We will probably never actually know who won the election, but we are sure of is that Ahmadinejad is guilty of a serious crime, tantamount to treason, for which he has to pay the ultimate political price. Whether Ahmadinejad actually got enough votes to win is no longer even the issue, in that he clearly violated every conceivable election law and the trust of the entire nation in ensuring his victory. If a fully monitored election were held next week, Ahmadinejad would certainly lose, and possibly by as much as the made-up numbers on this flier iindicate. But how can he even be allowed to run, or supervise such an election, in that he&#039;s clearly committed the most grievious election fraud? He has destroyed any sense of trust the people have in him, which is the foundation of any democracy. If Bush had announced his re-election numbers in 2004, carrying Berkeley and San Francisco by 70% majorities, would we have a recount, or an impeachment? Even if the recount showed a slight Bush win, wouldn&#039;t he be impeached for the crime of fraudulently trying to steal the election, even if unnecessarily so? So your argument that it matters, at this point, who actually won the election is pretty much besides the point. A crime against the entire democratic process has clearly been committed, and the government which committed this crime has to be held accountable for it - even if they would have won without having committed the crime. As it stands, the commission of this crime is the only fact we can be certain of, and it appears the people of Iran won&#039;t allow it to go unpunished.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All well and true, but doesn&#8217;t ignoring the election results and just making up winning numbers for Ahmadinejad constitute a grave and audacious crime against the state? We will probably never actually know who won the election, but we are sure of is that Ahmadinejad is guilty of a serious crime, tantamount to treason, for which he has to pay the ultimate political price. Whether Ahmadinejad actually got enough votes to win is no longer even the issue, in that he clearly violated every conceivable election law and the trust of the entire nation in ensuring his victory. If a fully monitored election were held next week, Ahmadinejad would certainly lose, and possibly by as much as the made-up numbers on this flier iindicate. But how can he even be allowed to run, or supervise such an election, in that he&#8217;s clearly committed the most grievious election fraud? He has destroyed any sense of trust the people have in him, which is the foundation of any democracy. If Bush had announced his re-election numbers in 2004, carrying Berkeley and San Francisco by 70% majorities, would we have a recount, or an impeachment? Even if the recount showed a slight Bush win, wouldn&#8217;t he be impeached for the crime of fraudulently trying to steal the election, even if unnecessarily so? So your argument that it matters, at this point, who actually won the election is pretty much besides the point. A crime against the entire democratic process has clearly been committed, and the government which committed this crime has to be held accountable for it &#8211; even if they would have won without having committed the crime. As it stands, the commission of this crime is the only fact we can be certain of, and it appears the people of Iran won&#8217;t allow it to go unpunished.</p>
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