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	<title>Comments on: The Folly Of Tough Talk</title>
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	<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/23/the-folly-of-tough-talk/</link>
	<description>n. the principle of good order&#60;br /&#62;&#60;br /&#62; "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman</description>
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		<title>By: David Tomlin</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/23/the-folly-of-tough-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-33000</link>
		<dc:creator>David Tomlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9770#comment-33000</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The word &lt;/i&gt;shahid&lt;i&gt; means witness, and also martyr.&lt;/i&gt;

The English word &#039;martyr&#039; derives from a Greek word for &#039;witness&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The word </i>shahid<i> means witness, and also martyr.</i></p>
<p>The English word &#8216;martyr&#8217; derives from a Greek word for &#8216;witness&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: sylvie_oshima</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/23/the-folly-of-tough-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-32993</link>
		<dc:creator>sylvie_oshima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:12:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9770#comment-32993</guid>
		<description>I missed this the first time....
&quot;But we must also &lt;b&gt;bear witness&lt;/b&gt; to the courage and the dignity of the Iranian people, and to a remarkable opening within Iranian society. And we deplore the violence against innocent civilians anywhere that it takes place.

This is not about the United States or the West; this is about The Iranian people can speak for themselves. That&#039;s precisely what&#039;s happened in the last few days.  In 2009, no iron fist is strong enough to shut off the world from&lt;b&gt; bearing witness&lt;/b&gt; to peaceful protests of justice. Despite the Iranian government&#039;s efforts to expel journalists and isolate itself, powerful images and poignant words have made their way to us through cellphones and computers, and so we&#039;ve watched what the Iranian people are doing.

This is what we&#039;ve &lt;b&gt;witnessed.&lt;/b&gt; We&#039;ve seen the timeless dignity of tens of thousands of Iranians marching in silence.  We&#039;ve seen people of all ages risk everything to insist that their votes are counted and that their voices are heard.  Above all, we&#039;ve seen courageous women stand up to the brutality and threats, and we&#039;ve experienced the searing image of a woman bleeding to death on the streets.  While this loss is raw and extraordinarily painful, we also know this:  Those who stand up for justice are always on the right side of history.&quot;

The word &lt;i&gt;shahid&lt;/i&gt; means witness, and also martyr.  I think the concept of witness is also deliberate in Obama&#039;s speech.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I missed this the first time&#8230;.<br />
&#8220;But we must also <b>bear witness</b> to the courage and the dignity of the Iranian people, and to a remarkable opening within Iranian society. And we deplore the violence against innocent civilians anywhere that it takes place.</p>
<p>This is not about the United States or the West; this is about The Iranian people can speak for themselves. That&#8217;s precisely what&#8217;s happened in the last few days.  In 2009, no iron fist is strong enough to shut off the world from<b> bearing witness</b> to peaceful protests of justice. Despite the Iranian government&#8217;s efforts to expel journalists and isolate itself, powerful images and poignant words have made their way to us through cellphones and computers, and so we&#8217;ve watched what the Iranian people are doing.</p>
<p>This is what we&#8217;ve <b>witnessed.</b> We&#8217;ve seen the timeless dignity of tens of thousands of Iranians marching in silence.  We&#8217;ve seen people of all ages risk everything to insist that their votes are counted and that their voices are heard.  Above all, we&#8217;ve seen courageous women stand up to the brutality and threats, and we&#8217;ve experienced the searing image of a woman bleeding to death on the streets.  While this loss is raw and extraordinarily painful, we also know this:  Those who stand up for justice are always on the right side of history.&#8221;</p>
<p>The word <i>shahid</i> means witness, and also martyr.  I think the concept of witness is also deliberate in Obama&#8217;s speech.</p>
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		<title>By: sylvie_oshima</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/23/the-folly-of-tough-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-32991</link>
		<dc:creator>sylvie_oshima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9770#comment-32991</guid>
		<description>Well I am disgusted by evil old man McCain and his kabuki theater on whether Obama is harsh enough.  Who cares?
People are dying in Iran, a LOT of people and all rightwing sites are doing is posting adnauseum streams of how bad Obama is screwing up.
He is not screwing up.
He is doing more than them in speaking to the Sea of Green in words that resonate, and by respecting their belief in al-Islam that is their sustenance and courage in this fight.
What we CAN do for the Sea of Green is show the world their voices and images, and respect their struggle for justice and freedom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I am disgusted by evil old man McCain and his kabuki theater on whether Obama is harsh enough.  Who cares?<br />
People are dying in Iran, a LOT of people and all rightwing sites are doing is posting adnauseum streams of how bad Obama is screwing up.<br />
He is not screwing up.<br />
He is doing more than them in speaking to the Sea of Green in words that resonate, and by respecting their belief in al-Islam that is their sustenance and courage in this fight.<br />
What we CAN do for the Sea of Green is show the world their voices and images, and respect their struggle for justice and freedom.</p>
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		<title>By: David Tomlin</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/23/the-folly-of-tough-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-32986</link>
		<dc:creator>David Tomlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9770#comment-32986</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;May I ask you David Tomlin, have you ever heard or read Neda described as anything other than a “philosophy” student?&lt;/i&gt;

Not that I recall. I haven&#039;t been following the coverage so closely as to put any weight on what I haven&#039;t heard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>May I ask you David Tomlin, have you ever heard or read Neda described as anything other than a “philosophy” student?</i></p>
<p>Not that I recall. I haven&#8217;t been following the coverage so closely as to put any weight on what I haven&#8217;t heard.</p>
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		<title>By: sylvie_oshima</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/23/the-folly-of-tough-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-32985</link>
		<dc:creator>sylvie_oshima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9770#comment-32985</guid>
		<description>The evil old man McCain cares nothing for the Iranian people or for Neda except as a club to beat Obama with.  He sang bomb bomb bomb about killing Iranians and that tape was played endlessly on statetv to validate regime paranoia and keeping the boot on the people&#039;s throat.
Inshallah his tribe [republicans] will suffer the fate of the Thamud and Khameni and Mojtaba and their tribe of &lt;i&gt;hirgabi&lt;/i&gt; as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The evil old man McCain cares nothing for the Iranian people or for Neda except as a club to beat Obama with.  He sang bomb bomb bomb about killing Iranians and that tape was played endlessly on statetv to validate regime paranoia and keeping the boot on the people&#8217;s throat.<br />
Inshallah his tribe [republicans] will suffer the fate of the Thamud and Khameni and Mojtaba and their tribe of <i>hirgabi</i> as well.</p>
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		<title>By: sylvie_oshima</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/23/the-folly-of-tough-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-32984</link>
		<dc:creator>sylvie_oshima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9770#comment-32984</guid>
		<description>May I ask you David Tomlin, have you ever heard or read Neda described as anything other than a &quot;philosophy&quot; student?
She was an &lt;i&gt;islamic&lt;/i&gt; philosophy student.
That means she studied&lt;i&gt; islamic religion.&lt;/i&gt;
Perhaps that evil old man knows Neda&#039;s true name, but he would not use it if he did.  It does not fit their narrative, of Obama eating icecream while westernized student protestors are shot.
/spit</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May I ask you David Tomlin, have you ever heard or read Neda described as anything other than a &#8220;philosophy&#8221; student?<br />
She was an <i>islamic</i> philosophy student.<br />
That means she studied<i> islamic religion.</i><br />
Perhaps that evil old man knows Neda&#8217;s true name, but he would not use it if he did.  It does not fit their narrative, of Obama eating icecream while westernized student protestors are shot.<br />
/spit</p>
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		<title>By: David Tomlin</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/23/the-folly-of-tough-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-32983</link>
		<dc:creator>David Tomlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9770#comment-32983</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The consumate evil of McCain and his following will not even allow her her true name in death…Neda means “divine calling” not “voice” . . .&lt;/i&gt;

If this is true, I don&#039;t see how you can blame the error on &#039;McCain and his following&#039;. I think I&#039;ve heard it on both CNN and MSNBC, and I have not seen or heard it disputed until now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The consumate evil of McCain and his following will not even allow her her true name in death…Neda means “divine calling” not “voice” . . .</i></p>
<p>If this is true, I don&#8217;t see how you can blame the error on &#8216;McCain and his following&#8217;. I think I&#8217;ve heard it on both CNN and MSNBC, and I have not seen or heard it disputed until now.</p>
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		<title>By: sylvie_oshima</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/23/the-folly-of-tough-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-32982</link>
		<dc:creator>sylvie_oshima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9770#comment-32982</guid>
		<description>If I may quote from the Holy Qu&#039;ran...like many here quote the Bible.
The &lt;i&gt;injustice&lt;/i&gt; of Neda&#039;s death will be avenged.

They called him liar
and hamstrung her for the slaughter
Then their lord rumbled down upon them
for their crime and wiped them away
with no fear of what came after

Khameni&#039;s tribe is the tribe of Thamud now.
And so is John McCain&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I may quote from the Holy Qu&#8217;ran&#8230;like many here quote the Bible.<br />
The <i>injustice</i> of Neda&#8217;s death will be avenged.</p>
<p>They called him liar<br />
and hamstrung her for the slaughter<br />
Then their lord rumbled down upon them<br />
for their crime and wiped them away<br />
with no fear of what came after</p>
<p>Khameni&#8217;s tribe is the tribe of Thamud now.<br />
And so is John McCain&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: sylvie_oshima</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/23/the-folly-of-tough-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-32980</link>
		<dc:creator>sylvie_oshima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9770#comment-32980</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;shukran&lt;/i&gt;, jetan.
;)
&lt;i&gt;sabr&lt;/i&gt; is needed....the 1979 revolution took about a year. Look for an event, a very large demonstration on the 40th day after Neda&#039;s martyrdom. Possibly Rafsanjani will have consolidated his support by then, possibly not.
I remain astonished at the ugliness and bigotry and hypocracy of the right....the sheer exploitiveness oand opportunism.  The consumate evil of McCain and his following will not even allow her her true name in death...Neda means &quot;divine calling&quot; not &quot;voice&quot;, and she was studying islamic philosophy and religion, not &quot;philosophy&quot;.
Is there any difference at all between evil old man John McCain trying to exploit Neda&#039;s death for political gain and evil old man Khameni trying to destroy the meaning of Neda&#039;s death by turning her into a MEK terrorist?
I see no difference at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>shukran</i>, jetan.<br />
;)<br />
<i>sabr</i> is needed&#8230;.the 1979 revolution took about a year. Look for an event, a very large demonstration on the 40th day after Neda&#8217;s martyrdom. Possibly Rafsanjani will have consolidated his support by then, possibly not.<br />
I remain astonished at the ugliness and bigotry and hypocracy of the right&#8230;.the sheer exploitiveness oand opportunism.  The consumate evil of McCain and his following will not even allow her her true name in death&#8230;Neda means &#8220;divine calling&#8221; not &#8220;voice&#8221;, and she was studying islamic philosophy and religion, not &#8220;philosophy&#8221;.<br />
Is there any difference at all between evil old man John McCain trying to exploit Neda&#8217;s death for political gain and evil old man Khameni trying to destroy the meaning of Neda&#8217;s death by turning her into a MEK terrorist?<br />
I see no difference at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Balloon Juice &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Funny Thing</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/23/the-folly-of-tough-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-32978</link>
		<dc:creator>Balloon Juice &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Funny Thing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9770#comment-32978</guid>
		<description>[...] Larison: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Larison: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Tomlin</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/23/the-folly-of-tough-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-32977</link>
		<dc:creator>David Tomlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9770#comment-32977</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;. . . engagement is not only more likely to be successful . . .&lt;/i&gt;

This throwaway line deserves a post of its own. Why should we think engagement is more likely to be successful now than in the past?

As one of the people who supports engagement without much confidence, I don&#039;t see anything strange about that position. Engagement is unlikely to work, but it&#039;s worth a try, and failure will leave us no worse off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>. . . engagement is not only more likely to be successful . . .</i></p>
<p>This throwaway line deserves a post of its own. Why should we think engagement is more likely to be successful now than in the past?</p>
<p>As one of the people who supports engagement without much confidence, I don&#8217;t see anything strange about that position. Engagement is unlikely to work, but it&#8217;s worth a try, and failure will leave us no worse off.</p>
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		<title>By: jetan</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/23/the-folly-of-tough-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-32975</link>
		<dc:creator>jetan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 04:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9770#comment-32975</guid>
		<description>sylvie_oshima, that was a pretty good comment. I like the idea that Obama is making specific Islamic references....I hadn&#039;t considered that he knows some of the theological lingo but, now that I do consider it, I think that you are probably correct. A little Koranic lore and Urdu poetry can take a feller a far piece these days.

@jamie

         It seems like John Boehner also declared victory over  the Pres. Fortunately, I didn&#039;t hear Obama say much beyond &quot;ain&#039;t it awful&quot;. I certainly don&#039;t see any UN action in the cards unless the whole thing tips into Civil War.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sylvie_oshima, that was a pretty good comment. I like the idea that Obama is making specific Islamic references&#8230;.I hadn&#8217;t considered that he knows some of the theological lingo but, now that I do consider it, I think that you are probably correct. A little Koranic lore and Urdu poetry can take a feller a far piece these days.</p>
<p>@jamie</p>
<p>         It seems like John Boehner also declared victory over  the Pres. Fortunately, I didn&#8217;t hear Obama say much beyond &#8220;ain&#8217;t it awful&#8221;. I certainly don&#8217;t see any UN action in the cards unless the whole thing tips into Civil War.</p>
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		<title>By: JJM</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/23/the-folly-of-tough-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-32974</link>
		<dc:creator>JJM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 04:09:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9770#comment-32974</guid>
		<description>sylvie_oshima, are you the same person that comments on Protein Wisdom and on sites about motorcycle gangs?  Inquiring minds want to know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sylvie_oshima, are you the same person that comments on Protein Wisdom and on sites about motorcycle gangs?  Inquiring minds want to know.</p>
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		<title>By: sylvie_oshima</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/23/the-folly-of-tough-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-32973</link>
		<dc:creator>sylvie_oshima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 03:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9770#comment-32973</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/23/mccain-wont-say-obama-is_n_219774.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A very evil old man.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/23/mccain-wont-say-obama-is_n_219774.html" rel="nofollow">A very evil old man.</a></p>
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		<title>By: jamie</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/06/23/the-folly-of-tough-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-32972</link>
		<dc:creator>jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 02:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=9770#comment-32972</guid>
		<description>I just saw Lindsey Graham on &lt;em&gt;NewsHour&lt;/em&gt;, he was happy to welcome Obama to his side of the argument, for what that&#039;s worth, but Lindsey might just be counting coup and quickly changing the subject.  Now that the counter has moved as far as he&#039;s concerened, he is calling for UN resolutions and more sanctions.  (Man, he is a strange Republican).
Kerry was the Democrat debating with him, and if Mousavi is truly the John Kerry of Iran, the protest movement must be doomed.  Kerry was happy to attribute the Iranian uprising and Lebanon elections to the Cairo speech.  Kerry&#039;s defense of Obama&#039;s position was tactical: &quot;We don&#039;t want to give the Mullahs more ammunition.&quot;  Neither really questions, as a general proposition, that we should be siding with one side or the other.
Very frustrating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just saw Lindsey Graham on <em>NewsHour</em>, he was happy to welcome Obama to his side of the argument, for what that&#8217;s worth, but Lindsey might just be counting coup and quickly changing the subject.  Now that the counter has moved as far as he&#8217;s concerened, he is calling for UN resolutions and more sanctions.  (Man, he is a strange Republican).<br />
Kerry was the Democrat debating with him, and if Mousavi is truly the John Kerry of Iran, the protest movement must be doomed.  Kerry was happy to attribute the Iranian uprising and Lebanon elections to the Cairo speech.  Kerry&#8217;s defense of Obama&#8217;s position was tactical: &#8220;We don&#8217;t want to give the Mullahs more ammunition.&#8221;  Neither really questions, as a general proposition, that we should be siding with one side or the other.<br />
Very frustrating.</p>
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