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	<title>Comments on: Britain: Things Fall Apart</title>
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		<title>By: David Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/postright/2009/09/19/britain-things-fall-apart/comment-page-1/#comment-2317</link>
		<dc:creator>David Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/postright/?p=1025#comment-2317</guid>
		<description>Funny how Geoff Mulgan (if it is he) has not put any of this on the British MSM website where I have also said all of the above. Never had him down as a TAC reader, I have to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny how Geoff Mulgan (if it is he) has not put any of this on the British MSM website where I have also said all of the above. Never had him down as a TAC reader, I have to say.</p>
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		<title>By: David Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/postright/2009/09/19/britain-things-fall-apart/comment-page-1/#comment-2312</link>
		<dc:creator>David Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/postright/?p=1025#comment-2312</guid>
		<description>&quot;Yes, Sinn Fein is only 5-10% of the South, not the majority of EU opposition. But the pro-life Lisbon Treaty opponents still mostly vote for Fianna Fail, of which I assume at least 80% of TDs back the Treaty, if not also for Fine Gael, which is even more federalist&quot;

It doesn&#039;t matter. The Constitution can only be amended by referendum.

&quot;Of course, the best solution is to create a populist-conservative party, if only Irish conservatives weren’t so damn habitual and loyal&quot;

Not a peculiarly Irish problem.

Perhaps in Ireland there is the sentiment found occasionally among Catholic paleocons in Britain (such as Peregrine Worsthorne, the late Auberon Waugh and, on the only major point on which I disagree with him, TAC&#039;s own Stuart Reid) that the EU might become a re-born Christendom; that, in Waugh&#039;s view &quot;at least its atheism is Catholic atheism&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Yes, Sinn Fein is only 5-10% of the South, not the majority of EU opposition. But the pro-life Lisbon Treaty opponents still mostly vote for Fianna Fail, of which I assume at least 80% of TDs back the Treaty, if not also for Fine Gael, which is even more federalist&#8221;</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter. The Constitution can only be amended by referendum.</p>
<p>&#8220;Of course, the best solution is to create a populist-conservative party, if only Irish conservatives weren’t so damn habitual and loyal&#8221;</p>
<p>Not a peculiarly Irish problem.</p>
<p>Perhaps in Ireland there is the sentiment found occasionally among Catholic paleocons in Britain (such as Peregrine Worsthorne, the late Auberon Waugh and, on the only major point on which I disagree with him, TAC&#8217;s own Stuart Reid) that the EU might become a re-born Christendom; that, in Waugh&#8217;s view &#8220;at least its atheism is Catholic atheism&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/postright/2009/09/19/britain-things-fall-apart/comment-page-1/#comment-2309</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/postright/?p=1025#comment-2309</guid>
		<description>David,

   Fair enough about standing as an independent.  I wish you luck.  

   Yes, Sinn Fein is only 5-10% of the South, not the majority of EU opposition.  But the pro-life Lisbon Treaty opponents still mostly vote for Fianna Fail, of which I assume at least 80% of TDs back the Treaty, if not also for Fine Gael, which is even more federalist.

    And Fianna Fail just joined the European Liberal group, so whatever pro-life leanings they might generally have don&#039;t get them too far.

    Of course, the best solution is to create a populist-conservative party, if only Irish conservatives weren&#039;t so damn habitual and loyal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>   Fair enough about standing as an independent.  I wish you luck.  </p>
<p>   Yes, Sinn Fein is only 5-10% of the South, not the majority of EU opposition.  But the pro-life Lisbon Treaty opponents still mostly vote for Fianna Fail, of which I assume at least 80% of TDs back the Treaty, if not also for Fine Gael, which is even more federalist.</p>
<p>    And Fianna Fail just joined the European Liberal group, so whatever pro-life leanings they might generally have don&#8217;t get them too far.</p>
<p>    Of course, the best solution is to create a populist-conservative party, if only Irish conservatives weren&#8217;t so damn habitual and loyal.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Mulgan</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/postright/2009/09/19/britain-things-fall-apart/comment-page-1/#comment-2308</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Mulgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 07:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/postright/?p=1025#comment-2308</guid>
		<description>Its wonderful to see satire alive and well in the august pages of the American Conservative (I&#039;m referring particularly to the final paragraph, which a friend pointed out to me). But just in case anyone misreads this piece as fact, just for the record, I am: not old; have never been a Trotskyist (unrepentant or otherwise); and am not in line for either a peerage or ministerial office under a future Conservative government.  Demos was not founded on the ruins of the Communist Party (with which I have never had any involvement): its second publication was by Margaret Thatchers chief economic adviser; its third by a man who is now the Liberal Democrat spokesman on the economy (and the most trusted politician in Britain). In other words, every single fact is wrong which is  really quite an achievement!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its wonderful to see satire alive and well in the august pages of the American Conservative (I&#8217;m referring particularly to the final paragraph, which a friend pointed out to me). But just in case anyone misreads this piece as fact, just for the record, I am: not old; have never been a Trotskyist (unrepentant or otherwise); and am not in line for either a peerage or ministerial office under a future Conservative government.  Demos was not founded on the ruins of the Communist Party (with which I have never had any involvement): its second publication was by Margaret Thatchers chief economic adviser; its third by a man who is now the Liberal Democrat spokesman on the economy (and the most trusted politician in Britain). In other words, every single fact is wrong which is  really quite an achievement!</p>
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		<title>By: David Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/postright/2009/09/19/britain-things-fall-apart/comment-page-1/#comment-2306</link>
		<dc:creator>David Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/postright/?p=1025#comment-2306</guid>
		<description>Thomas, Sinn Fein, which is pro-abortion, is nowhere near as large as the pro-life opposition to the Lisbon Treaty in the South. Among others.

The best thing to do is to stand as an Independent. That&#039;s what I&#039;m doing. Once we are in, then we or our successors, encountering each other, can coalesce into new parties, just as the old ones emerged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas, Sinn Fein, which is pro-abortion, is nowhere near as large as the pro-life opposition to the Lisbon Treaty in the South. Among others.</p>
<p>The best thing to do is to stand as an Independent. That&#8217;s what I&#8217;m doing. Once we are in, then we or our successors, encountering each other, can coalesce into new parties, just as the old ones emerged.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/postright/2009/09/19/britain-things-fall-apart/comment-page-1/#comment-2303</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/postright/?p=1025#comment-2303</guid>
		<description>But really, David, about the British political parties, what kind of &quot;other arrangements&quot; are you planning to make?  What good does it do to say, &quot;Labour is full of ex-Trots, the Tories are closet Objectivists, the Liberals are .... well, too liberal and cosmopolitan, and the BNP has a few ex-Nazis&quot;?  There is no traditional conservative party in Britain, and I unconvinced that the BNP is more evil than the other options that might end up on one&#039;s ballot there.

I suppose locally there are a few small Christian parties and if I were a Scot, I might back Alex Salmond as the least of evils, but one should really make a positive, rather than fully negative, recommendation.  

Abstaining won&#039;t matter, just like America still has to be called the &quot;Father of Democracy&quot; even right after elections where most people don&#039;t vote, and probably a third of people have no clue they are supposed to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But really, David, about the British political parties, what kind of &#8220;other arrangements&#8221; are you planning to make?  What good does it do to say, &#8220;Labour is full of ex-Trots, the Tories are closet Objectivists, the Liberals are &#8230;. well, too liberal and cosmopolitan, and the BNP has a few ex-Nazis&#8221;?  There is no traditional conservative party in Britain, and I unconvinced that the BNP is more evil than the other options that might end up on one&#8217;s ballot there.</p>
<p>I suppose locally there are a few small Christian parties and if I were a Scot, I might back Alex Salmond as the least of evils, but one should really make a positive, rather than fully negative, recommendation.  </p>
<p>Abstaining won&#8217;t matter, just like America still has to be called the &#8220;Father of Democracy&#8221; even right after elections where most people don&#8217;t vote, and probably a third of people have no clue they are supposed to.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/postright/2009/09/19/britain-things-fall-apart/comment-page-1/#comment-2302</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/postright/?p=1025#comment-2302</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t have any facts on the matter of whom the CIA was funding in Northern Ireland, however it would not be inconceivable that they would participate in the funneling of arms to the Provos while funding the SDLP political wing.  

After all, they had at least something to do with propping up the right-wing of the Labour Party &gt;&gt;&gt; SDP and pro-NATO social democrats all over Europe.  Hell, the PDSI in Italy was virtually their creation.

As for Sinn Fein and the South of Ireland, they are the largest anti-EU political force.  To a large degree, they play a positive role there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have any facts on the matter of whom the CIA was funding in Northern Ireland, however it would not be inconceivable that they would participate in the funneling of arms to the Provos while funding the SDLP political wing.  </p>
<p>After all, they had at least something to do with propping up the right-wing of the Labour Party &gt;&gt;&gt; SDP and pro-NATO social democrats all over Europe.  Hell, the PDSI in Italy was virtually their creation.</p>
<p>As for Sinn Fein and the South of Ireland, they are the largest anti-EU political force.  To a large degree, they play a positive role there.</p>
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		<title>By: Karsten Dunstan</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/postright/2009/09/19/britain-things-fall-apart/comment-page-1/#comment-2301</link>
		<dc:creator>Karsten Dunstan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/postright/?p=1025#comment-2301</guid>
		<description>The BNP gained just under a million votes at the Euro-elections. Far from being Neo-Nazis, they were the only party to support Israel over its defensive camapign in Gaza. They are the only party which really cares about the future of Britain&#039;s identity, traditions and values.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The BNP gained just under a million votes at the Euro-elections. Far from being Neo-Nazis, they were the only party to support Israel over its defensive camapign in Gaza. They are the only party which really cares about the future of Britain&#8217;s identity, traditions and values.</p>
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		<title>By: Skull / Bones &#187; Blog Archive</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/postright/2009/09/19/britain-things-fall-apart/comment-page-1/#comment-2297</link>
		<dc:creator>Skull / Bones &#187; Blog Archive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/postright/?p=1025#comment-2297</guid>
		<description>[...] Overseas politics looks weird to me. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Overseas politics looks weird to me. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://www.amconmag.com/postright/2009/09/19/britain-things-fall-apart/comment-page-1/#comment-2295</link>
		<dc:creator>David Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/postright/?p=1025#comment-2295</guid>
		<description>&quot;My own understanding - limited though it may be - is that if there was any CIA funds going in that direction, it would more likely to be going to prop up the moderate nationalist SDLP (Social Democratic Labour Party) as a counterbalance to the militant Republicans. 

The claim that NORAID was being funded by the CIA does seem rather… extraordinary. Forgive my imposition, but I would very much like to see what actual proof there is of that.&quot;

The SDLP wasn&#039;t killing the Workers&#039; Party or anyone else, so it was of no interest to the CIA. NORAID publications from the time are, as I said, entirely matter-of-fact. And, as I said, NORAID supporters are notoriously naive about the nature of Irish Republicanism.

&quot;I just hope they never take control in the South&quot;

The British Army now marches there in full dress uniforms at funerals. God Save The Queen is sung at international sporting fixtures at Croke Park, on the very turf where executions where carried out during the War of Independence. But the South has a very elaborate system of Proportional Representation. And those who were already poor just got a whole lot poorer.

But you are right about the &quot;dissidents&quot;. If they were really any such thing, then they&#039;d be dead. And Irish-Americans might consider that the Sinn Fein Education Minister in Northern Ireland has banished the Anglican, Presbyterian and Methodist clergy from their historic role in schools, as the prelude to banishing the Catholic Church from the schools throughout Ireland, while, under the aegis of the Irish language (and at public expense), Sinn Fein is establishing its own network of schools in direct competition with the Catholic Church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My own understanding &#8211; limited though it may be &#8211; is that if there was any CIA funds going in that direction, it would more likely to be going to prop up the moderate nationalist SDLP (Social Democratic Labour Party) as a counterbalance to the militant Republicans. </p>
<p>The claim that NORAID was being funded by the CIA does seem rather… extraordinary. Forgive my imposition, but I would very much like to see what actual proof there is of that.&#8221;</p>
<p>The SDLP wasn&#8217;t killing the Workers&#8217; Party or anyone else, so it was of no interest to the CIA. NORAID publications from the time are, as I said, entirely matter-of-fact. And, as I said, NORAID supporters are notoriously naive about the nature of Irish Republicanism.</p>
<p>&#8220;I just hope they never take control in the South&#8221;</p>
<p>The British Army now marches there in full dress uniforms at funerals. God Save The Queen is sung at international sporting fixtures at Croke Park, on the very turf where executions where carried out during the War of Independence. But the South has a very elaborate system of Proportional Representation. And those who were already poor just got a whole lot poorer.</p>
<p>But you are right about the &#8220;dissidents&#8221;. If they were really any such thing, then they&#8217;d be dead. And Irish-Americans might consider that the Sinn Fein Education Minister in Northern Ireland has banished the Anglican, Presbyterian and Methodist clergy from their historic role in schools, as the prelude to banishing the Catholic Church from the schools throughout Ireland, while, under the aegis of the Irish language (and at public expense), Sinn Fein is establishing its own network of schools in direct competition with the Catholic Church.</p>
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